For our first episode I speak with Delvina Sejdii, a young peacebuilder from North Macedonia. Delvina is a member of UNOY – the United Network of Young Peacebuilders which is a youth-led network for young people involved in various peacebuilding activities in 69 countries around the world.
When we recorded our call, Delvina was working at a youth project called MultiKulti in her home city of Kumanovo which is run by the Center for Intercultural Dialogue, a civil society NGO and she continues to be involved there in a voluntary capacity. Delvina is studying international communications and diplomacy at university and was recently selected to be President of an Institute for Political and International Studies in North Macedonia.
My thanks to Eliška Jelínková and Manon Buret from UNOY who connected me with Delvina, I really enjoyed our conversation. We talk about how she got involved in youth work and what motivates her, the importance of young people getting involved in peacebuilding, her vision for her city and beyond and the value of dialogue in a divided society.
I’d love to hear what you think about the podcast, so please get in touch and you’ll also find a transcript on the website episode page.
Show links:
United Network of Young Peacebuilders (UNOY)
UNOY is one of the partners involved in The Peace Corner Podcast which is well worth listening to.
Center for Intercultural Dialogue
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Credits:
Created, produced, and hosted by: Debs Erwin
Music: GlowCity
Artwork: Rachel Brady
Sound Editing & Mixing: Stu Reid, Stunt Double Music
TRANSCRIPT: Delvina Sejdii
Delvina Sejdii: “I would say that young people almost always go unheard. The problem is like they just ask, it's like, just for the surface, then they never listen to that. And the problem is like really important because we are the future. It's not the old people, like we're going to create this, we're going to build this”.
Debs Erwin: Welcome to the very first episode of the Citizens Now Podcast! My name is Debs Erwin, and this is a space to hear stories of young people from all over the world who are actively working to bring about positive social change.
I’m super excited to introduce my first guest, Delvina Sejdii, a peacebuilder, youth activist and student from North Macedonia. Delvina is a member of UNOY – the United Network of Young Peacebuilders and she began getting involved with youth work at a youth centre in her home city of Kumanovo.
I spoke with Delvina in the summer of 2022 when she was on a study visit to the US where she was sizzling in the heat of Phoenix, Arizona. Meanwhile I was in recovery after having Covid so apologies for sounding a little bit croaky.
In the conversation Delvina and I talk about what motivates her to work with young people and why she thinks it’s important that young people are involved in peacebuilding.
DE: Welcome Delvina. I am so delighted that you are joining us on the Citizens Now Podcast. I would love it if you would start off just by telling us a little bit about where you come from, the kind of work that you do and how you got involved.
DS: Well, firstly I'd like to start by thanking you for giving me the opportunity to speak about my city, my work and me and like to, to inspire the other young people. And I really appreciate it. So, I'm Delvina as you mentioned. I'm a 20-year-old student. I come from Kumanovo. Kumanovo is a, really - North Macedonia in general, is a multi-ethnic country but unfortunately segregated and the, and that thing is like most common in Kumanovo and segregation - ethnical segregation where, like Turks, Macedonians, Albanians are like all divided, Kumanovo is separated in two parts where you can like, you basically walk through the streets and you know that that's the Albanian side and that's the Macedonian part. And why I chose to do that. Our youth centre is based on, our organisation works through that, it works to unite young people through activities, peace building activities, projects. And how I got involved to that - it was six years ago actually, I was a kid, literally, and I really wanted to join because I always enjoyed knowing about other cultures, befriending other people and just like expanding my horizons. So, I went there as a volunteer. I volunteered for six years, and a couple of months ago I got offered to work as a youth worker where I organise all the activities and I get to live my dream to unite people through peace building activities.
DE: Wow, that's brilliant and tell me a bit about what you're studying as well.
DS: So, I'm currently studying international communications and diplomacy, and that's again related to that because I want to always keep working with NGOs, embassies, and everything just to solve these problems in the world and, like affect other people and inspire them to do the same as me. So, we can change the world together.
DE: Fantastic. And it sounds like you've been getting some amazing opportunities recently and currently, you are in Phoenix, Arizona, on a study visit and you also recently, were on a, a training programme with, UNOY, the United Network of Young Peacebuilders. So, can you tell me a little bit about those things as well?
DS: So, about the UNOY, it started at my work. I was nominated by them to go there, and I'm really grateful for that opportunity because I got like the most amazing skills and methods about journalism and how to spot fake news and everything like that. And then I also got another opportunity which was in Skopje with the same journalism training in the digital era and everything, and I was so glad because I already knew everything from the UNOY where I participated in Greece. And about the Phoenix one – this is a study of the U.S. Institute for student leaders. It's fully funded by the U.S. Department of State, where we get to like come here, learn about their culture, learn about the methods, gain new skills, be more individual, and experience the American culture and values. And hopefully to get them back in our country.
DE: Wow, what a great opportunity. Yeah, I'm curious about why you think those kinds of opportunities are important and, and also, why is it important that young people get involved in in peacebuilding? – like my observation is that sometimes it's easy for young people just to be ignored, you know, they get side-lined and so on. But it seems like networks like UNOY are doing really important work. So, yeah, what would you say about that?
DS: I would say that young people always like, almost always go unheard. It's not that people don't ask them what's missing or anything like that. But the problem is like they just ask, it's like, just for the surface, then they never listen to that. And the problem is like really important, because we are the future. It's not the old people, like we're going to create this, we're going to build this, so, UNOY makes it possible for us, our voices to be heard, to implement these projects, to implement these activities and actually change the things that we lack or like, put the things that we lack and change the things that we miss and everything like that, that's, that's really important to me. And also, why is it important because I'm attending all of these activities, training courses and everything is because North Macedonia is okay, a mid-developed country and misses a lot of things and by attending these I gain the things that I need so, I can do them and change the things back home and actually help the others do the same. And I can do that through workshops through activities also like the student club that we have, everything like that.
DE: Yeah, that's, that's great. Obviously, you're going to bring that energy back with you into your work and also in meeting other people and, yeah, tapping into new networks and meeting people from other places. It's so important. You mentioned there just in terms of how it's important for young people to be involved in these kinds of initiatives. I'm just curious about what are the conversations that you wish professionals and you know, ‘adults’ - I'm using inverted quote marks - you know, teachers, youth workers, other people who work with young people. What are the conversations that you wish they would initiate with, you know, young people like you?
DS: So, you know about the thing that I said they ask you about things and then they propose, like, a full-on plan that you have to follow and do their way. So, I wish they could, like, listen to you and actually listen and pay attention and then implement the things that you say and not do it their own way, their grown up… because it's not going to work your way. Maybe seriously, we're not experienced or anything like that, but sometimes we know better because we’re living that thing. And we know what needs to change in our time, in our generation. So that would be the thing that, not to like ask, but pay more attention. And actually, yeah, ask what's missing in our society, what's bothering us and stuff like that. And not just like teachers and like youth workers, but also politicians. Because they play a huge role in this, to be honest, and they really have all of the things in their hands, like most of the things, actually. So that's really important.
DE: Yeah, that's so true. Yeah, so I'm also curious about how you - like, obviously you believe that - because you wouldn't be doing this otherwise. And you've been doing this since you were what, 13 I think you had told me when we first met. So, you believe that young people can make a difference, can be change makers, so I suppose I'm curious about what it feels like to…you know, I would kind of maybe describe that, that you're stepping into your power and who you are and what you can do. So yeah, I'm curious about what that feels like, and do you have a sense of your own power to bring about change, positive change?
DS: So sometimes it feels tiring, to be honest, because sometimes you just feel like you're not doing anything, except for like, wasting your time because nothing is changing. But then comes the end or then comes the… because I'm involved with the youth working part and then comes the, come the activities, the final report, and you see the change that you made, you see the numbers that have been raised, like 200 people visiting the Youth Centre, various activities implemented by other young people, the workshops that I've led inviting more and more people - they got the new knowledge. Then, like the messages that I see from them asking me about other stuff. I see that the generation and the cycle just goes up and up and up and like it rotates and you have actually an impact, your voice matters the things that you do matter, and it's not wasting time, it's actually doing it for a better society and like to flourish together with everyone. I know that my voice is like being heard, and I know that I have a positive impact. It just feels tiring sometimes because you have to organise everything, and you cannot see the thing until the end, that's the problem.
DE: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's hard to get, yeah, there aren't instant results. And yeah, that can be hard. So, are there things that sustain you or that fuel you? Or are there particular, yeah, are there different sources of support that you find that are helpful to keep you going in those moments when you're thinking, ‘Gosh, I'm just too tired for this’?
DS: Well, kind of the leaders of our organisation, like I don't want to use the leaders are like the, our boss or anything like that because we're all a family there. But whenever we feel like down or like, ‘this is not going to work’. They sit with us, they hear like our negative comments and everything that complain, the complaints that we have. And then they tell us this is how it goes and blah blah blah, stuff like that – like that fuels me and keeps me going. And then at the same time, when I see other people from my generation or like even younger than me, that's what fuels me, like I'm doing this for someone. It's not going somewhere, you know, in the trash or something like that, I'm not… So that really fuels me and the changes that I see. And also, when I think about the future of my country, I keep going and I will always keep going.
DE: Yeah, so, what would you say is your vision for your country and beyond? I mean, what's the kind of world that you want to build, to create, to be part of creating?
DS: I would start from my city because Kumanovo as I told you it’s segregated, and I would definitely change that. I would want us to all like, live together, be together. For instance, I just saw that a protest was like, - you know that how North Macedonia cannot get into the EU because of some Bulgarian things and stuff. And the protest was meant to be for that. And you can see them swearing at Albanians and saying bad words, so, I don't want that happening anymore, so I would start from my city Kumanovo. I would change my city then I would go from, to North Macedonia solving the political issues. Since I'm also in diplomacy, I can do that by negotiating and everything like that in the future, of course, in the future, And, about the world, I guess that we have to see about that, how I can get involved and everything. But I believe I can have an impact in there as well. Because everything that you believe in, you can achieve that actually, I just don't have a plan yet for that.
DE: Yeah, that's okay, that's okay. I think that’ll come!
DS: Baby steps.
DE: Yeah, totally, but yeah, what you're, what you're doing right now sounds so valuable and important. And actually, it's, it's something that yeah, well, it's, it's one of the reasons why I wanted to speak to you because I think we can learn from each other’s stories and cities and contexts. And I suppose, yeah, that leads nicely on because it's obviously a very divided city, and I can relate to some of that because the context that I live in is also very divided and contested, and like you were mentioning earlier, you know language can be… is a dynamic. You know, there might be an Albanian way of saying something and, or pronouncing kind of things. So, there's those little kind of, subtle kind of ways of, of seeing difference or how it shows up. So, yeah, I'm curious about what are some of the key challenges in the work that you do when you're in such a divided place? And what are you learning? What are you learning about peace building and what works, what helps?
DS: So key challenges, I would say, sometimes we would have these discussions and if they got to like into the patriotism or nationalism part, you could see like people instantly dividing. And you have to, like, keep that calmness, keep the quietness like, for instance, about the language that I told, because it's like we have two official languages, which is Macedonian and Albanian, and Macedonians don't, not all of them of course - this doesn't have to be included - don't agree with the two official languages like Albanian to be official as well and they were like, ‘You have your country’. Whereas I grew up there like that's my country, you know, how, where is my country if that’s not my country? How can it be only yours? But I just have my language. And other things a challenge… Maybe people sometimes not being consistent with what they're doing and like leaving the things - that kind of aches me but I still try to support and motivate them to do the things, I think this like covers all of the challenges the work has. And yeah, as I told you, the key one is sometimes the patriotism kicking in when you're talking or discussing something, you can see like people instantly separating and that defence mechanism going ‘mine is better’, ‘no mine is better’. And like we have this activity that we do, it's like basically, we talk about our culture, we divide people like Albanians and Macedonians, and you should see the outcome. It's like discussion, debates for hours, ‘No, this is ours, this is better’ - stuff like that. So yeah.
DE: Wow, yeah, that sounds really quite, like it can be quite intense at times. And do you, like what, do you see value in those kinds of discussions and dialogues? Is that helpful for those young people when they get into that conversation?
DS: I actually do, because maybe they talk something, they speak something that they've been like thinking for years and everything. And there are people who can actually correct that and then they learn from that and get actually more united. And we see that the difference are, the differences are actually beautiful. And there is not a culture or a language that is better. Every culture has its own unique traits and values and everything. And this is what we teach them.
DE: Yeah, that's great. Well, clearly the centre is well named as a Centre for Intercultural Dialogue because that’s, you’re right in there.
DS: The youth centre is named actually ‘MultiKulti’ which means multiculturalism and the organisation is Centre for Intercultural Dialogue, yes.
DE: Okay. Yeah. Brilliant. That's perfect. I suppose I have another question that kind of follows on from something we were just saying. I have this, you know, kind of, I suppose, a kind of a core belief that I really think that young people can bring to the world what it most needs. And so, I'm just curious about what you think young people's contribution is? Like in 2022, like in these, you know, like there are so many challenges in the world in the 2020s, there's been a lot happening. And yeah, and it's been tough. It's been really tough for young people, particularly you know, with the pandemic…
DS: Every new year brings like another thing, which is terrifying!
DE: Yeah, yeah, so what, what do you think young people can offer in this time?
DS: So, what we can offer? I don't know if you’re like aware of that because not like directly doing something. But at the same time, this might sound interesting maybe or funny, but the trends that they do, like this came instantly to my mind, like when there was about to start the war. The thing they actually bring awareness to the, by speaking about the issue and everything. So social media is our like core strength and everything like - we say our things and people get educated, people get to know about them. Like a lot of things actually can change because of that, because you get more voices and more like petitions and everything. So that's actually an impact, but at the same time, like we are the future leaders, aren’t we? So, we get to learn from that and never do the same mistakes and know how to like, how the politics, how the world goes and the orders, so we do not get to do the same mistakes again, to repeat the same mistakes again.
DE: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think, yeah, I've definitely seen that where yeah, young people are really trying to learn from the past and forge kind of new paths and new ways of doing things. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, how could people who maybe want to find out more about your work, what you're doing, how would they go about that?
DS: So, before I go to that, I would actually like to thank you for giving them the opportunity to me. But I would also like to give a shout out to Manon and UNOY. Because they gave me this opportunity. Manon introduced me to you and told me about this. And about the website, I'll send it to you so you can put it on the screen, if that's possible.
DE: Perfect, yeah.
DS: And you can actually contact them for international work and everything like that. They can do collaborations often times.
DE: Perfect. Yeah, that's brilliant. Yeah, I'll definitely do that. I'll put it in the, there will be a link in the show notes. So, Delvina Sejdii. It has been an honour to meet you. I wish you well with your studies, with your work, all the things that you're learning, you have a lot of energy, you have a lot to give, and, look after yourself as well. I’m glad that you're part of a network of people – yeah, you're well hydrated there! And yeah, you're part of a, it was lovely how you described the youth centre where you work, as a family because I think that's so important in these times that we support each other and keep encouraging each other. So, thank you so much for joining the Citizens Now Podcast and I'll be following your progress with great interest. So, thank you.
DS: The pleasure has been all mine. And I thank you like deeply from my heart for this thing. And it was really an honour to meet and talk with you. And I really appreciate that you actually listen to the youth and you're doing this for us so our voices can be heard, and people can actually get affected and learn from us, maybe. Thank you very much.
DE: I think people have a lot to learn from you. So yeah, that's great. Thank you so much.
DE: Thanks so much for tuning into the inaugural episode of the Citizens Now Podcast and I hope you were as encouraged as I was by Delvina’s vision for her city and beyond and hearing her perspective on the value of dialogue in a divided society. I’d love to hear what you think about the interview, so please share your reflections by visiting https://www.citizensnowpodcast.org/.
Next week has a more local flavour, local to me that is, as I’m speaking with Mia Pobloth who comes from Newcastle in County Down, a small town about 30 miles outside of Belfast where I’m based. When we recorded our call, Mia was in her final year at school where she was a long-time member of the school’s Amnesty International group, and we talk about some of the human rights campaigns she’s been involved in. It’s a super conversation so, please subscribe to the podcast and if you’ve enjoyed the episode, please do share it with others so that more people can find out about us. Thank you.