Following on from last week’s conversation with Kate Yeung, I got to speak with her former colleague Sen Toyotoshi (she/they) who at the time of our call was a Project Support Officer with MYAN, the Multicultural Youth Advocacy Network and now works in a Partnerships role at an accounting software company with an aim to help small businesses. Sen was born in Paraguay, moved to Canada, studied in Japan and has been living in Australia since 2022.
We chat about how Sen brings together their interest in business and passion for social issues, in particular, those related to young people, as well as what might be their superpower. She explains the role of MYAN’s youth ambassadors, talks about their inspiring leadership and notes the possibilities when young people have a platform to share their stories. We also explore the challenges presented by tokenism and the nuances of citizenship.
My thanks again to Nadine Liddy who connected me with Rana Ebrahim, MYAN’s National Manager who put me in touch with Sen.
Show links:
MYAN – Multicultural Youth Advocacy Network
Check out the MYAN My Voice Podcast developed by MYAN’s Youth Ambassador Network
FUSE – MYAN’s National multicultural youth leadership summit
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Credits:
Created, produced, and hosted by: Debs Erwin
Music: GlowCity
Artwork: Rachel Brady
Sound Editing & Mixing: Stu Reid, Stunt Double Music
TRANSCRIPT: Sen Toyotoshi
Sen: “And I can just see that every year and every generation, these people are just doing more and more, and they're just doing and achieving greater things. So that makes me excited to see that this is a generation that's going to lead the world”.
INTRO
Welcome to the Citizens Now Podcast! My name is Debs Erwin, and this is a space to hear stories of young people from all over the world who are actively working to bring about positive social change.
Today I’m speaking with Sen Toyotoshi, a former Project Support Officer at MYAN, the Multicultural Youth Advocacy Network in Australia. They used to work alongside Kate Yeung who was featured in last week’s episode. As you’ll hear Sen is truly a global citizen and understands the value of lived experience particularly in their work supporting young migrants and refugees to advocate for change.
In the conversation we learn about the role of MYAN’s youth ambassadors, we explore how Sen brings together their interest in business and passion for social issues and we also touch on some of the challenges presented by tokenism. Let’s hear from Sen now.
INTERVIEW
DE: Welcome, Sen Toyotoshi, to the Citizens Now Podcast, I am so pleased that you have been able to join us. And I'm really looking forward to our conversation. So, by way of introduction to our listeners, Sen is a Project Support Officer with MYAN, the Multicultural Youth Advocacy Network. They're based in Melbourne, where they're doing a Master's of Management, at the University of Melbourne. And I think I would describe you as a global citizen, because you've come to Melbourne by way of Canada and Japan and a few other places. And so maybe we can kind of start there. And yeah, please tell us a little bit about yourself. And yeah, what your journey has been to where you are now?
ST: Perfect. Well, thank you for having me, first of all. And just to introduce where I started, I was actually born in Paraguay. And I'm the child of Japanese descendants, in Paraguay and in Peru. And then when I was seven, I moved to Canada for security reasons. And then I did my undergrad in economics and communications in Tokyo, Japan, worked there for a year and then moved to Australia for my Masters.
DE: Yeah, that's definitely a journey quite, like all the way around the world, both hemispheres, and both kind of, like, opposite kind of sides of the globe. So yeah, that's, that's very cool. Curious about, obviously, you have a big interest in, in business, given your studies. And then as well as that a real interest in social issues. And sometimes, I suppose my observation is sometimes that those things get separated off and sometimes, particularly with career choices, it can be you know, sometimes people are directed to go one direction or the other. So yeah, I'm curious about your interests and, and also what has brought you into the work that you're doing with MYAN?
ST: So, I also used to separate both my business work and my career to my own personal life interests and passions, which has always surrounded social issues and environmental issues. But when I first started working in Japan for a for-profit company, I found that a part of me was missing in the work and I didn't really have a purpose in the work that I was doing and I just, it was hard to get up every day and go to work and, you know, work more than 40 hours a week. But with MYAN, and with my Masters, I was able to take a lot of courses regarding sustainability, also social issues and ethical issues in business and how they're becoming more prevalent, and how consumers today care so much more than they used to about those, what corporations are doing regarding these issues. And I really resonated with that. And that's where I found the, I found MYAN's job as a Project Support Officer, which combined both project management as something that I studied, as well as social issues regarding young people from refugee and migrant backgrounds. And as a person who has been an immigrant for the majority of my life in various different countries and have faced different issues regarding immigration and not being in the majority. I really wanted to work in that field and see what kind of information I could gain and experience I could gain, but also what I could, what kind of insight and what I could give them with my own experience.
DE: Yeah, so, tell us a little bit about the kind of work that you're doing now with MYAN what, but, yeah, what kind of things are you getting your teeth into?
ST: So, my role is very project-based. And the biggest project that we recently completed was the in-person retreat with all the youth ambassadors from all over Australia. So, we have two new youth ambassadors for every state and territory with the exception of Northern Territories and South Australia, which we only have one, and we also coordinated with the state territory representatives that are the - I don't want to say ‘adults’ because some of our young people are adults, but they are the more experienced ambassadors. And we invited them as well, as well as the Youth Reference Group. And we all had a really big retreat with team building activities, and some trainings such as public speaking. And we just all got together and shared our stories, and they all connected, and it was really great. And my role in that was to do all the coordination and logistics with my other teammates, so catering and the flight coordination, the hotel bookings, all the finance, just basically all the paperwork, but I got to attend the retreat and lead some of the activities and have dinner with the young people. And that was really awesome.
DE: Wow, I'm just thinking that must have been so special, you know, having the chance to be all together in the same place. Because the distances are vast in Australia, I live on a small island. So, it's hard to kind of imagine. So, can you say a little bit about what the youth ambassadors do, what's involved in their role?
ST: So, they have various opportunities, mostly, they work closely with the state governments. And they participate in consultations. And they do some social media work as well. And try to share the opportunities in their local communities. And then as a whole, they're always connected to the MYAN organisation’s networks. So, they have lots of national activities and can participate in big national events, such as FUSE. And we also sometimes have national conferences, which they are invited to. And there's also lots of opportunities we, which we send them to speak, like, as speakers in these events. So, it's great. They really get out there.
DE: You also mentioned a Youth Reference Group, and what part do they play in MYAN?
ST: Right now, their big project is regarding the COVID vaccines. So, they help spread information and do consultations for refugee migrant communities that may not have the access to information or may not have, may not feel comfortable talking about vaccinations and may not understand the health system necessarily. So, they do help with that.
DE: That's great. And so, do youth ambassadors and youth reference group members, do they also then help to shape the work of the organisation as a whole? Is there that kind of input into how things are, into decision making or anything like that?
ST: Absolutely, MYAN is a youth-informed organisation. So, we really love listening to our young people. And that's why we recruit them is to understand the issues that they face personally, or that they've experienced, or their communities have experienced, take that input and to connect them to the platforms that they need in order to have their voices heard, especially with government and policy and advocacy work.
DE: And what have you observed to be some of the challenges with that kind of work? You know, my observation is that sometimes there can be a sense of kind of tokenism. 'Oh, yes, let's hear the nice young person speak and say something good, and we'll applaud them' and then those involved in some government structures or whatever, maybe just leave it at that. So, I'm curious, do you see that or what are the challenges with, yeah, with making young people's voices heard and count?
ST: As you mentioned, tokenism and that kind of performative mindset is definitely present in some of the meetings and consultations we have. It's almost as if they already have an opinion and they just want to confirm it, by saying that, ‘yes, we consulted with young people, so we're right, and this is what we’re going to do’. So, it does sometimes feel like we're not being heard at all. And they, we're not saying what they want to hear. So, it does get frustrating in that sense. And, yeah, there's definitely some instances where they just meet for the sake of meeting to say that they met, and then don't really take any of the input at all. But, for the most part, I found that lots of people do really want to listen. And it's a bit of a challenge with bureaucracy, actually implementing policies and getting initiatives out. But most of the time, people are very much interested and do want to do something with the input we give them. But yes, it's just a challenge of actually implementing things.
DE: So yeah, I suppose I'd love to explore what's your what's your vision? You know, what are the changes that you would like to see around you? Through the work that you do, but also, more broadly, and I suppose, you know, the kind of big picture stuff, you know, what's the world that you want to be part of building?
ST: Yeah, well, definitely, I want more youth to be involved in different parts of society, including government, the population for youth is growing. And for such a group, so big, that doesn't have the power of voting, there needs to be a channel for them, and for their issues, to be heard, or to be worked on. And so, I think, I really do believe in a lot of the youth councils that the governments or some governments are implementing, I think it's a great way for young people to get involved with things they are passionate in and have experience in leading and advocacy, while at the same time getting their issues heard and solved by the government. And in terms of society in general, I think now, as I mentioned, like businesses and corporations are really starting to realise they need to listen to their consumers, the ones who are actually buying the products. And with this generation coming up, it's just not going to be acceptable to be polluting the planet and getting away with it or participating in modern slavery and still expect their consumers to want to buy their products. And so, I think corporations are starting to listen, and try to get more involved with youth groups and social work groups. I really hope that gets further progressed. And that it becomes actually faster. I think we're a little slow in changing. But I do hope that there's going to be that connection soon.
DE: Yeah, I think you're right. I think there's a sea change. And yeah, I often think of that analogy of, you know, large tankers take a while to turn. So yeah, it's about kind of keeping on. And I suppose that leads to my next question, you know, what fuels you and what sustains you? Because, you know, change doesn't happen overnight, and particularly the kind of work that you're involved in. So yeah, what are the things that keep you going and keep you getting out of bed in the morning?
ST: Definitely connecting and talking to all the young people involved. Their stories are at the very least inspirational, but they are so powerful. And if they just had a platform to share their stories, then I'm, I'm sure that people would listen to them. They are just so great. And there's so much meaning and potential in them. And so, to be working towards giving these young people that opportunity and that platform is what helps me get up every morning. And these young people are so amazing like they're doing, I'm still only 24, but there's people who are 17, 16, who are doing so much more than I did at their age. And I can just see that every year and every generation, these people are just doing more and more, and they're just doing and achieving greater things. So that makes me excited to see that this is a generation that's going to lead the world. This is, these are the people who are coming up behind me and who are going to, you know, support me and support, we are all going to support each other in this change. Yeah.
DE: Yeah, there's so much energy in what you're saying, I'm loving it. And yeah, like I want to ask about, like, you're kind of touching on it there, what you think it is that young people can bring to the world, like, and particularly in this moment, you know, when there is so much change happening, there are so many challenges. What is it that you think young people particularly can bring big, because they're young people?
ST: Definitely perspective – to be growing up and having a lot of your key developmental years being in a pandemic, or facing global challenges, is, definitely gives you a different way of viewing the world, and a different way of reacting to things as well. Some people will just, you know, let it slide like, 'oh, global warming, that's okay, I guess'. But if you're someone who was directly impacted by this in your childhood, there's no way you're going to react that way. And you're going to be doing things now. And you're going to be acting now. And, and to just have that understanding of how it affects these people, and how they're going to be the ones inheriting the world next is definitely key for implementing future policies that are going to affect many generations after you. Like the whole concept of you're planting seeds for a garden you'll never see - you're planting the seeds for this generation that's coming up. So, you need to listen to them to see what they need and what you can do to support them.
DE: Yeah, I think that idea of generational thinking is so important. I'm curious what you would say about you know, what are good ways to work with young people? And what are, you know, what are the questions or the conversations you wish 'adults', and I'm saying that in inverted commas, or ‘professionals’ would initiate with young people?
ST: The key thing I would say is to be open minded when talking to young people. I think there might be a tendency to dismiss them, because they're young, or dismiss them because they don't have the experience that you do. But their upbringings could be so different, and they could have experienced so much in less years than you basically. And to just dismiss that without even listening to them is just, it's frustrating for the young people, and you're gonna miss out on so much. So definitely open-mindedness and curiosity. I think if you're just curious about different people and different perspectives and just different life experiences, then you'll be fine. People love talking about what they went through.
DE: That's so true. Absolutely. And people's stories are so unique. I'm also curious about what kind of support do you think young people need in these times? And maybe you're seeing a little bit of that come out with that, you know, big retreat that you were part of? What are the things that teachers, youth workers, social workers, you know, anyone who or people who volunteer with young people, what are the things that they can do to, to encourage young people to support them to help them step into, you know, initiatives like you're involved in?
ST: I think what's intimidating for young people is that, since they've been told that they're young, and they don't know anything, that they don't, they're scared to voice their opinions for fear of sounding dumb, or fear of saying something that's obvious. So, to just encourage them, and tell them that their experiences are unique, and that their input is valuable, and it's not something that will be dismissed. And it's not something that people, they're not going to be condescending towards - is definitely what I would say, as an encouragement for any person working with young people. Yeah, because once they're told, like, a few times that I don't, you know, 'you don't know what you're saying', then a lot of them actually shut up forever. And they're too scared to say anything after that which is really unfortunate.
DE: Yeah, and, and as you say, then those voices are getting lost. And we're all kind of missing out. So yeah, that's really good advice.
DE: I'm also curious about your own sense of your own power, and how you've sought to step into your own power within. So yeah, like, what would you, what would your reflections be on that?
ST: It took me a long time, to feel comfortable to step into this space. And it's not something that I studied, like some other people. And I didn't necessarily know all the vocabulary or the definitions of things involving social work. And that really intimidated me, I just didn't have the vocabulary to express myself in the professional way that I thought was expected of me. But what I learned, especially with MYAN is that lived experiences are valuable, and that you don't need a PhD in social work to be able to contribute something. And that just telling your own experiences and your own stories, is valuable enough. And it's more valuable than you think. And so, with that encouragement, I felt a lot more comfortable in talking to other people about my experiences, and also being able to listen to other people's experiences and understand that they went through something completely different than me. And that is the most amazing thing. And it's awesome and wonderful to hear about all these different lives.
DE: That is just beautiful. I will definitely listen to that again. Because, yeah, that's actually really kind of inspiring. Just I think the concept of lived experience has become, you know, that term is kind of used more often. But I think you've actually given a really great kind of definition of how that can be understood and the value of that. How would you say that you are, you know, as you've stepped into this work and realized, you know, what you can bring to it, and kind of overcome, I suppose some of those hurdles with, you know, like, this whole new language, how would you say that, yeah, would you say that you have a superpower, or, you know, how are you harnessing your power to, to make changes in the world?
ST: Well, I think the fact that I didn't study social work, and I didn't study policy, but studied business instead, actually became my advantage in my work. So now I can help MYAN and their advocacy work with my organisation skills, and with general logistic abilities and capabilities, management, and finances as well. And now, in order to have more connections and more partnerships, we might have to connect with corporations, we might have to organise meetings with more powerful bodies in the society. And I think the business and the management studies that I did actually help with that. And it's important to manage a nonprofit organisation. Because if you don't manage it properly, then there's a lot of operational waste. And all that waste could actually be used to help people. To be efficient in a business sense is also very important for advocacy work.
DE: Yeah, absolutely. And I suppose it's the kind of thing that maybe doesn't get the kudos? Because it's kind of in the background, maybe. But back in the introduction, I kind of described you as a global citizen, and I kind of wonder does that kind of expression fit for you? And also, like, in the space that you're working in, you know, with young migrants and refugees, that whole concept of citizenship is quite a tricky one. So, yeah, I'm curious about what you think about that kind of terminology? And is there value in it?
ST: Citizenship has always been a very hard concept for me to define for myself. I always hate the question 'where are you from?’ Because I don't know how to answer it. And people have defined me and have seen my citizenship in completely different ways, depending on where I am, and who I'm talking to. So, in Paraguay, I was seen as Japanese. But then in Canada, I was seen as Latina, but also Japanese. But then when I went to Japan, suddenly, I wasn't Japanese anymore and I was Canadian. And I do have citizenship in Canada, which I got with my family after years of living there. And in a legal sense, it means that I can vote, and I can live in Canada. But I think the moment I truly felt like a citizen was when I was involved in school, and through school, helping the local community. And I think that's where citizenship really plays out. It's when you become involved and when you contribute to the community that you're a citizen of. So, I'm hoping that I can call myself a citizen of Australia soon, because I really do love this country. And yeah, I think citizenship is complicated, and I think everyone will define it differently. But for me, it's when you feel like you're part of the community.
DE: Again, that's so beautiful. Thank you for describing it in those terms. I think that's really powerful, and it's accessible to everyone, then you know - that's the impression I get that it's, it's something we can all access and be part of. Is there anything that you would like to promote in terms of MYAN? If people would like to find out more, how would they do that?
ST: So, MYAN has an Instagram account, which is just @MYANAustralia. And we also have the website. And I would encourage people from all over the world to check the website out and to see if you can get involved in something similar. And maybe even start your own Multicultural Youth Advocacy Network in your country or your hometown even. I think it's a great support system. And it doesn't have to be a big thing. It can start small.
DE: That's great encouragement. Yeah, that would be amazing if somebody takes that on. Sen, it has just been a delight to speak with you today. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your wisdom and thank you for the work that you're doing. So, wish you all the very best and thanks so much for being part of this.
ST: Thank you so much, Deborah. I really enjoyed talking on this.
OUTRO
I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Sen, I felt there was a beautiful kind of gentle power in their thoughtful responses to my questions. I appreciated how they navigate the nuances of citizenship as a concept and what it can mean when it’s something we actively practice. I’d love to hear what you think about the interview, so please share your takeaways at citizensnowpodcast.org.
Next week my conversation is with Lauren Roberts-Turner, a student, activist, researcher, and campaigner from England who specialises in issues relating to welfare and poverty. What Lauren doesn’t know about welfare and social justice simply isn’t worth knowing so please do subscribe to the podcast so you can access the episode as soon as it’s released.
If you’re enjoying the show, I would be so grateful if you would share it with others and please also give us a rating and review so that more people can find out about it. Thank you.
Finally, if you’d like to contribute to my tip jar, please check out my ko-fi page at ko-fi.com/debserwin, it’s linked in the show notes. Thank you.